Hi all,

Just a provocative concern/observation. During the 30+ years I've been involved in Judo, it seems that our sport has really diminished in terms of enrollment & participation. When I competed as a young child in the late '70s/early '80s, even the very local shiais would have 12-15 judoka per division. And the larger regional shiais could have 30+ per division. Now, if there are 4-6 per division, it seems perfectly acceptable - many times there are 2-3. Also, for example, The Empire State Games used to be a major event in NY, and to win a chance to compete in them was quite an achievement. Now there are some competitors that make it to the ESGs by sheer circumstance - they were the only competitor in their weight class during the regional trials. I started practicing at a dojo in PA on Saturdays and there are very few adult members and NO kids...yet the BJJ classes during the same time in the same facility are totally FULL.

I know there are still some dojos (Mayo Quanchi/Pedros) that have great enrollment, but for the most part, most of the dojos have shrunk in size.

What's the deal? What can we do to increase enrollment vs. BJJ and Karate? Any thoughts? Its a great sport!

Thanks,

JM

I too have mentioned this observation before, that Judo is shrinking today compared to the 60s and 70s when even the local tournaments would have 120 competitors and we all competed at least 8-10 times per day. I was attending three tournaments a month during the competition season (Sept thru April) and could have gone to more if the funds were there.

Today there are only two or three places that hold regular tournaments in the Boston area with a sprinkling of yearly special events, and sometimes there are less than a dozen competitors.

I still don't have the funds to travell all over the U.S. on a whim just to increase my tournament attendance let alone increase competition levels because you cannot do it locally in New England anymore.

Well if its true, why? And what can we do about it? And why is BJJ/Karate growing and so popular while Judo shrinking? Is it the coaching? Poor marketing?

JM

its the movies and telly

Hi Jewdoka,

This was the subject of very hot debate here only some weeks ago. I wrote then that the "problem" is NOT confined to the States but certainly Europe as well. Some of the Dojo I went to only 15 years ago have closed? Some of the best known clubs in the UK have closed. the Renshuden the LJS (so I am told) Also in Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Infact I would THINK that France is one of the countries that has possibley kept good numbers in Judo.
You should sift through the threads to find the reasons given by members. Some dont agree? Some agree and give good reason for the demise. I think it goes back to 1938, and possibley just before, when Judo peaked and then began to decline. Certainly after 1945 the numbers of Judo WW where NOTHING in comparison with what went before. I would think the IJF could give us exact numbers BUT suspect they never will as Judo means money to so many in high position today. The 1970's apperard to see the end of growth in some countries?

Good question. Best wishes to you.



Add to that. Play station 11 and the like, plus computers and you make a very very valid point.

BJJ popularity is growing because of the UFC and MMA in general. If you lump Karate and Taekwondo together, the amount of schools out there is huge. I'm not sure if Karate popularity is necessarily growing, but the amount of schools simply outnumber Judo schools and clubs by far.

In my area, most of the places to practice Judo seem to be non-profit clubs who don't advertise themselves vary much and only practice twice a week. It is tough for them to compete against Karate schools who have classes 5-6 days a week and constantly advertise themselves.

Plus, most people new to martial arts don't know what they want and its so they are most likely gonna end up checking out a Karate school just due to the sheer abundance.

Yesterday, Haruo Imamura was awarded coach of the year for northern California from California Judo, Inc. In providing material requested from California Judo magazine on the award winners, Jerry Hays found an old picture and article on Sensei Imamura from the 1960's when he won THIRTEEN MATCHES by ippon to win the 180 pound category of the senior nationals. It sure as heck doesn't take 13 rounds to win these days. Yes, the numbers are down.

I have some of the old pool sheets when I competed and there were usually 25-30 in the middle weight women's divisions and 50-80 in the men's divisions. The overall figures for the senior nationals are not down because they include masters and kata. I bet if you looked at the shiai only figures, they have dropped dramatically.

In California, they seem to be slowly rising again. The tournament yesterday was a good example. It was much better attended than previous years.

Personally, I think the answer is more attention to the local coaches and local clubs where over 95% of our judo participants are, helping them to recruit, retain and effectively teach people judo.

Hi JM,

I find Karatedo in the same boat as Judo. I find Aikido is in growth plus as you write the BJJ, MMA etc. Could it be about Image? When I started Judo, Judo was looked upon as a deadly martial art and James Bond with his Seionage and Tomoenage where all the rage Plus his "Judo" chop.
Then came another big nail in the coffin, David Caradine with his TV series, Kung fu and of course Bruce Lee.
Many people then saw Judo, in terms of an MA, as a joke, from then on Judo was identified by the puplic as a sport and kept that way by the IJF and the IOC so they could receive funding from Government. Right or wrong Judo lost its image.

Nice post, good question, would take a book for an answer?

Hi Annmaria Sensei,

Your ultimate paragraph hit the nail on the head for me. When are the Judo organisations going to start promoting Judo from the bottom up instead of spending a fortune on the top and whats left is fought over at area level to give to the clubs at grass root level (generaly NOTHING). This follows on from my earlier post.
Top level Judo is fantastic but why do the children and non top draw players have to pay for it. Governments give money to associations where does this money go........In terms of europe I can give you some idea. If we take an event at international level and our team is involved the team of Judoka may consist of 20-30 Judoka BUT the total number in the party getting on that plane is around 100!!! Holidays should not be paid for by tax payers money nor from the grass roots club level Judoka who are paying for all this. I think it normal though as it is generaly the TOP who feed of the BOTTOM, in society this is "normal" (when I write this I dont refer to the actual Judoka but the "politicians", hangers on).
I suspect Judo has cost you a small fortune in your time competing at top level, have you ever asked exactly where all that government money and association subs go to?

Very best wishes to you.

Brazilian Jūjutsu and Karate are street fight oriented sports and they are growing because they use media to promote themselves. They offer what people are looking for on self-defense.
Our beloved Jūdō is competition oriented sport. To gain medals is its main goal.
It is simple like this. No fairy tales on it!
How could we change it?
Bringing ATEMI-WAZA back and adapt it to self-defense aspect.
(We are talking about WHAT can be done, not HOW it is accomplished.)

Unfortunatelly, Jūdō instructors very often forget Jūdō came from Jūjutsu...

I don't know if atemi-waza is necessarily the answer. I've worked out at a few BJJ schools and they usually teach more sport oriented BJJ. All the techniques I've learned and practiced are legal in competition, no street-only techniques. Yet there are many people in the class.

I practice Judo, but to gain medals is not my main goal. My main goal is to stay fit while doing something I like.

Hi Jose,

How are you? I hope you are not a medical doctor? Your acceptance of things would lead to the rapid depletion of your patience!!! Why do we HAVE to accept some thing if we dont consider it correct? Look in WW11 a whole nation was whipped into hysteria by ONE "person", and a very small poulation fought from within that society against him. Are you saying this small percentage who fought against Hitler where wrong because they where the minority? Of course not. If we want change we have to vote with our money, our feet and how we teach and practice Judo. This is not looking for "fairy tales" but standing up to be counted no matter how lonely this position may be.

You keep well, I do enjoy your Japanese translations here. Best wishes to you.

Hi Akeru.
You probably did not understand the meaning of JewDoKa post:

He wants constructive solutions to a given problem.
WWII has nothing to do with this matter. The situation here is (written above):

"What can we do to increase enrollment vs. BJJ and Karate?"

...this statement by itself simply do not bring more students to Jūdō - according to this case.

My solution to the presented question/problem keeps the very same: bringing ATEMI-WAZA back and adapt it to self-defense aspect.



If I was doctor my patients would have pragmatic, simple, easy to understand and very direct answers...

Akeru,

Would you give me (us) your view at what should we do to grow from (or at least maintain ) Judo at where it is now.
This not a challenge but a serious question - and please be specific and lengthy in your ideas.

I will share my thoughts a bit later (got to get off the PC).

All,

I want to be part of the solution. Judo is a wonderful sport for all the reasons we know... conditioning, confidence, socializing, FUN!, self-defense, etc. If we've identified that in fact it has been fading rapidly, it is up to the Judo community (us) to start marketing and playing to the masses in a positive way and promote the positive aspects of Judo. I don't want to use street-fighting/hollywood drama as a ploy (I think we would all agree to that) to compete w/ BJJ and Karate/Kung Fu.

If we go back to the grass roots of the sport, combined with good coaching and effective soft marketing perhaps we can grow the attendance levels.

AnnMaria Sensei, what are the governing bodies doing (USJA/USJI/USJF/IJF, etc), if anything, within the annual budgets to round up new judoka (kids and adults) in the US and the world. And what can we do to make it more robust?

I hope that within 10 years we can get back to the levels of judoka that AnnMaria sensei speaks of.

Thanks,

Joey

Lets be honest we live in a society of fat and lazy people who want to be instantly gratified Judo will not be for them. I know what your saying, "what about bjj" Well what about it lets be honest bjj is way easier on the body than judo and eventhough it takes many years to master after only about 6 months you will feel like you can do somthing not so with judo and as an added bonus I do brazilian jiu-jitsu sounds more dangerous than I do judo.

"...roots of the sport..." That's what I said. Jūdō has much more to offer. It depends on us to promote it.

Tempting to say that there are more judoka under 12 years of age than over. True?

Based upon the local shiais that I have been officiating, I would agree based on total participation. But I can't validate that. Its too small no matter what.

JM

Hi Sasae,

To do this I would have to condense the reply and generalise. Is this a good idea? There ARE answers, there are theories. Problem is they are plural not singular! Plus comes the point of standing on senior peoples toes. Some of them are dead so would this be fare? They are not in a position to defend themselves?
Name names etc............You advise me if you think you can take the reading of the answer?

Best wishes Sasae Very best wishes to Tammy. I hope she is well?

i read there are more karate clubs in usa than judoclubs, thats funny cause its the other way around here (holland). But also i notice that most clubs dont "just" teach judo, they teach jujutsu, karate etc, so if one person decides to go do a martial art they just walk into a club like this and get to look around.

(to prevent questions, there are also a lot of clubs that teach just judo, and they outnumber the karate clubs )

Here is the deal.

In my opinion this is the most critical subject that we in are facing today.
We (you, I, everyone here) will need to do something. Someone like Annmarie
who is on USJA BoD will do make big institutional steps, someone like
me will do small, "in the trenches" steps.
TRUST ME, I DO all of those steps.

As you know from my posts here I worked for Judo through the horrible
family health situation. I was back on the mat a week after my wifes surgery.
Spent days and nights working to keep the program running.
Still - it is still very, very hard to keep it going.
I do not know what else to do - I teach good, I work hard, I give great learning materials
for free, I customize the lerning program for every single person.
Help them win, help them grow, parents love me as an instructor, kids love what they learn,
adults and peers love the wholesomeness and toughness of the Judo we teach,
but still - numbers are going down.

That is not for BJJ we would not have anyone in the dojo (people cannot afford BJJ
so they go for Judo).

I recently spoke with one of your colleagues (7-th Dan, UK Judoka, now runs big dojo here in US)
and he was very depressed over where Judo is going.
He brought up some very worrisome numbers.
He is running a univeristy club, a large regional tournament, etc. and the trends
he is seeing are simply not good.
Plus, he is almost seventy so sooner or later he will be saying good bye to Judo.

For that reason - if you have any idea whatr the issue is and specially how to fix it
speak, write, type a book here.
It is needed.
I need to hear from the people who were in this game longer that I was.
Who've seen a better days, and who may have known the causes.

What inspired me ask you this - when you mentioned the history of hype and James Bond, pre-war and post war
Judo.
So please - fire away about everything you know. Yes, name names if that will add value.

Jita Kyoei

I couldn't say it better!

Jita Kyōei !

I am simply not sure what has changed. Maybe there is too much emphasis on competing and winning and less emphasis on the fun, excitment, and joy of the sport. At my 1st dojo in a YMCA in NY in the 70s/80s, we all couldn't wait for Judo on Saturdays where there were at least 5 classes per day with up to 20-30 students per class (pee-wees, beginners, intermediates, advanced, juniors, seniors, elites, etc.) It was the fun, challenge and camaraderie that sparked the excitement. I wish I could go back in time.

Cheers.

Joey

Is Judo experiencing what TJJ did after Judo proved its effectiveness in Japan? If I remember right after Judo won out in the Police tournament vs TJJ, TJJ Membership plummeted over the new, “effective” version of Jujitsu (Judo history experts help me out). Now we have another iteration of Jujitsu in BJJ with a new approach to teaching what most Judoka would agree is mostly Judo with "a different emphasis" and some additional locks. However, the PERCEPTION is BJJ is much more effective than Judo so if you want a real "kick butt" MA and not just a sport you need to do BJJ. To top it off BJJ does offer a lot of competitions (sport) to satisfy the athlete and the rules are geared towards developing Vale Tudo (no-hold-bar fights) skills--at least that is what is advertised.

Bottom line: Is BJJ doing to Judo what Judo did to Jujitsu after the Police competition I read about? Is BJJ perceived as the more effective MA and Judo is linked to the old, ineffective way of teaching Jujitsu?

Question to ponder: What would happen to Judo if it loses its Olympic status? I know of many young judoka that strive to be elite competitors so they can at least get a shot at the big game. If that wasn’t something they could shoot for I really doubt they would even be doing Judo.



Just an observation...LEt the flames begin.

Someone would invent a Brazilian Jūdō!

Place me firmly in this group. I grew up doing Judo, took a leave of absence and am back in Judo ONLY because I cannot afford BJJ. I like the emphasis BJJ places on the techniques I learned in my earlier Judo days and like that their rules cater to a more realistic fighting scenerio.

My 2 cents

I think you and Sasae are right... but the question still remains... what to do to change this scenery?

1. Please keep in mind that Ju-do was intentionally developed to be a humane form of Ju-jitsu. Combat Ju-do is simply Ju-jitsu, and there are several styles of Ju-Jitsu. My style is Hakko-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu.

2. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu claims to be a style of 'jitsu' therefore it is not a gendai art, BJJ is a koryu art and thus the emphasis of combativeness.

BJJ is no way superior to Ju-do since Ju-do does contain kicking, punching (e.g. eyestrikes), and effective defenses against knife, sword, stick, and gun. BJJ has none of these. Shiai is not the epitome of Ju-do and was never intended to be.

3. Judo is sophisticated and takes a long time to learn, Americans demand immediate gratification on almost all levels and therefore do not gravitate to Ju-do as to other martial arts, such as Karate or Tae Kwon Do where Americans tend to predominate. Ju-do is to wrestling what an F-16 is to a bi-plane, and Ju-do is to BJJ what chess is to checkers.

4. Most Judo-ka begin their BJJ prize fighting careers after their Ju-do careers are over; BJJ does not contain the depth of Judo.

Hi Sasae and Joe,

Can we cure the illness or the problem without looking at the cause? I would suggest not.

We would need to start at a minimum point in time of 1946-7. Expalin how Judo was "developed" or "sold".

We would then have to look at the Budokwai in London UK to see the enormous impact a few members of this group had on world wide Judo.

The founding of the IJF then the EJU and the other unions affiliated to the IJF.

We would need to look at the IOC. Charles Palmer, Anton Geesink. EVEN Gunji Koizumi and Kyuzo Mifune.

Money, power, grade. greed, ego and a vicious circle.

To make Judo popular again would take steps so drastic that the present Judo politicians would NEVER accept/allow, as it would affect so many peoples pockets, life styles, egos. Like most things in life the subject (judo) has been sacrificed for the self gratification of a few people who greatly benifit from it being as it is. Judo is NOT as it is today by accident. This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Parts of the history of Judo make President Kennedys' assasination look simple!! I joke not.

If there is a knock on my door in the early hours of the morning I will ask you two to answer it?!

Should I start..................?

Hi Guest,

You MUST write more, expalin what you mean. Details please. What did BJJ offer you that is now no longer in Judo?

Please do reply. write freely.

Best wishes

for more competitions an idea I had was hosting small inter club competitions, not that many competitors, but less stressfull and possibly more fun than a huge tournament for the newer players. would be a more friendly atmosphere too I believe. plus it would give more competition oppurtunities for the members of the club. thats just an idea tho, and coming from a greenbelt, lol, so feel free to ignore it. I'm trying to talk my sensei into doing one.

Absolutely. No one here knows who you are, but you definitely have a good insight so go write ahead.
I am not aware of any Judo NKVD that will come to your house to take you for a long winter vacation.

I teach at one of the larger clubs in the U.S. I also visit some of the largest clubs (Gardena, Sawtelle, Goltz and others) whenever I get a chance. Here is what the large clubs seem to share.

1. A focus on conveying to the PARENTS and to the adult students the benefits of judo. Primary among these are discipline, respect, physical health and development of friendships and social skills. These clubs don't stress Olympic competition although there have been elite competitors who came from all of them.
2. Instructors who work together and are very interested in improving all the time. Some are at all the clinics. Others, like our head instructor, Trace Nishiyama, are limited by other responsibilities but they are constantly watching videos and inviting others to teach at their dojos so they can learn more.
3. Outreach. They don't wait for someone to do it for them. Most have a website, although some (like ours) are not updated as frequently as desired. They send flyers to the local schools. They send articles to the newspapers and newsletters.
4. They have extracurricular activities. All have huge Christmas parties. Most have other events. Venice has its summer picnic. Goltz has pool parties. This relates to #1.
5. Most, if not all, have their own supplemental materials they give to new members. Some wonderful person at Venice (I think Ann Nishiyama) created a new member handbook. I am working on our Children's Judo Handbook this week.
6. Most are involved in their local organizations - yudanshakais, CJI or USJA - to get more ideas from other instructors that they can use.

I, and the other instructors at larger clubs, seem to approach it from a more business-like perspective. As the marketing director at my company challenges us at every board meeting, "We need to answer the question, why would anybody pay us money? Well?"

Akeru, I can not answer for SASAE, but, for me, this post seems a little bit Zen-ish... a Kōan.

"We would need to start at a minimum point in time of 1946-7. ..."
Not really. The problem Jūdō faces now is the competition against "new arts" and widely spread new public choices (like BJJ, Karate and so on).

"Money, power, grade. greed, ego and a vicious circle."
We all recognize those facts, but, what do they bring to our present case? How can we use those factors in our advantage to promote Jūdō?

"To make Judo popular again would take steps so drastic that the present Judo politicians would NEVER accept/allow, as it would affect so many peoples pockets, life styles, egos. Like most things in life the subject (judo) has been sacrificed for the self gratification of a few people who greatly benifit from it being as it is."
"Your acceptance of things would lead to the rapid depletion of your patience!!! "

"This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Parts of the history of Judo make President Kennedys' assasination look simple!! I joke not."
What the ...?! ?!

"If there is a knock on my door in the early hours of the morning I will ask you two to answer it?!
Should I start..................?"
Didn't you start already? Geeee... Too Zen-ish!

May be I am too dumb, but I still do not understand your point on this context.

I like all of Sensei AnnMaria's points. I think that if we all follow these guidelines, we can be more successful moving forward. ESPECIALLY point #1.

Thanks,

Joey

I have quite a few ideas on this and if you want to look at why judo is declining in an area you need to look at the fact that the number of people participating in judo is simple maths -

the number of judo clubs x the number of people per club = number of people doing judo

if you increase one or the other the total increases. This may seem a little bit obvious to have to state, but I need to do so to explain the rest of my reply. Some of the points I will make are solutions, some are the problems I don't have any suggestion around.

Increasing the number of judo clubs:

1. Succession planning must be in place, how many judo clubs have closed down because the sensei retired or moved on or lost energy and let the club slowly die. All people who run clubs must have something in place to ensure their club exists longer than they do.

2. Clubs must be as easy as possible to start - this is where the governing bodies come into the picture - provide support for this to happen.

3. This is closely linked to #1 - focus on developing future sensei as well as elite competitors. They are quite often not one in the same. Elite competitors quite often burn out or get bored of judo etc and it is the next tier down who so often end up training the champions of tomorrow. That is why this is this is distinct from focusing on competitors (or recreational players for that matter).

4. I have seen some judo clubs become solely focused on elite competition judo. Inevitably these clubs do not grow judo as the easiest way to have competition success is gather all the successful judoka around you can rather than develop your own. Other clubs (who are bringing the next generation of judoka through) suffer as a result and cease to be viable.


Increasing the number of judoka in a club:

1. We can all name, regardless of our country some clubs that are thriving despite the general state of judo in our respective countries. That is because recruiting new judoka happens most successfully when the people running a club make it happen. The only thing preventing replication of this elsewhere is desire and know-how to do it.

2. In areas where a club exists, it is unlikely that a new judo club will open up next door. So if you have a club with 10 members, chances are that there will be no other club close by to offer judo to the other 50,000 people that live near that club. This means if you run a judo club - aim high.

3. Recruitment! Recruitment! Recruitment! - And keep doing it, don't stop.
Demos, pamphlets, going into schools and running school based classes, youth groups, school holiday programs. I'm not convinced about the internet for advertising as for someone to find your site they will already have decided to do judo - not saying don't have a website, just don't rely on it.

4. Retention, Retention and Retention. Judo has so much to offer it is a sport, martial art, good way to learn discipline and respect, a "complete system of physical education", a good way to meet new friends - I could go on - it is all of these things and more. Many people will find something in judo they like, they may not take the entire cake straight away but if the cake is good it might inspire them to come back to try the rest of it. Offer various pathways to people within judo to keep them involved and it will pay off.

Finally, some general comments on this issue:

1. Why is it everytime this topic comes up the issue of BJJ, TKD etc etc etc, comes up. Perhaps this is part of the problem. We are so focused on what everyone else is doing we forget about promoting judo.

2. At best someone in their 30's is going to do judo for maybe 30 years. If they leave, I also doubt they will come back. Someone who starts in childhood could stay in judo for 60+ years. If they leave judo after 10-15 years they may very well return in their 30s or 40s and already be an accomplished judoka, who can then become one of those sensei that are so vital to our future. I am not saying we do not want the adult beginners (in fact my own sensei did not start judo until his mid 20s), I am just saying we need to get children involved more. (Incidentally, how many children do you see doing BJJ, that is one of the reasons I don't see it as too much of a threat.)

3. I've said this in other threads as well but it is worth saying again. There are over 295,000,000 people in the USA not doing judo. If you can recruit .01% of those peple in to judo that doubles the number of US judoka. The same thing applies in my country but with much smaller numbers. (We only have 4,000,000 in total).

4. To finish off consider this metaphor. A pyramid is a more stable structure than a tower is. We need to build a wide base and the elite will rise to the top. The may still get there without a wide base but the top can fall off much more easily.

Regards,
CBJudo

The grass is not always greener on the other side. Some think that BJJ is thriving but here's an article that seems to think otherwise:

We Are Not Athletes

Brazilian jiu jitsu is not and will never be a sport. The International Olympic Committee will never recognize it and thousands of fans across the world will never be cheering when they hear the names Pe de Pano, Saulo or Leozinho. To be fair, if those guys go into MMA, they might get a few cheers, but as long as they stick with the sport aspect of jiu jitsu or submission wrestling, they'll toil in obscurity as niche athletes somewhere alongside the Jamaican bobsled team and the U.S. cricket team.

Why hasn't this sport caught on? Well, there are a lot of reasons. Some people don't like to watch men in intimate contact. Most people don't understand the techniques involved in practicing the sport. The media hasn't taken a great deal of interest in promoting the sport. All of these are sound reasons why jiu jitsu gets less play than the annual national spelling bee on ESPN. But at the end of the day, there's one big reason that overshadows them all.

Money.

It's not the lack of sponsorship or fear of grappling taking the money away from some other sport, as many contend has been a roadblock to MMA's popularity. It's the money you have to put in to actually enjoy the sport that's keeping people away.

Most people, especially Americans, like sports they can participate in. Sports they can teach their kids the basics of or recreationally indulge in themselves. Jiu jitsu is not such a sport, particularly in America, but I suspect also even in its native country of Brazil. If jiu jitsu were such a sport, luta livre wouldn't exist for the poorer, darker complexioned citizens of Brazil who perhaps couldn't afford a gi.

If it is indeed a sport, jiu jitsu is one of the most expensive ones to enjoy in America. After all, anyone can play basketball, baseball, soccer or football for free. Most everyone knows the techniques involved in these sports, primarily because they've been around so long. I'm far from NBA caliber, but I could teach a kid how to dribble, how to execute a proper layup, how to shoot a jump shot and probably even how to dunk (on a low rim, of course). The kid could, of course, go to a special basketball camp over the summer and learn the intricacies of the game, but why would he do that unless he wanted to pursue it as more than just a recreational hobby?

That said, why does every jiu jitsu school assume that every person who walks through their doors wants to go to Abu Dhabi? I mean, they must assume that if they're going to put potential grapplers through the Hell of their warm-ups and throw them in an uncomfortable (and probably ill-fitting) gi as soon as they walk through the door, only to have a bunch of ambitious white belts lapel choke these hapless visitors a hundred times before the two hour long class mercifully comes to an end.

I never had a day on the court or field that went like that, though I have run into my fair share of people who thought they were Allen Iverson. Nevertheless, I played and enjoyed myself with what skills I had. And I didn't have to pay $25 for the privilege to do so.

But I'm not being fair. Team sports and individual sports are different. Any individual sport requires instruction and usually a special circumstance or setting for it to be acted out. Tennis players need courts. Track stars need tracks. Boxers sometimes even need rings. Equipment and training space costs money and if you're going to shell out even a little money to play a sport, there might just be something more than recreation on your mind. Perhaps a comparison is in order.

At the New York Tennis Club in the Bronx, a sprawling 118 year old club with U.S. professional tennis pros on staff, you pay $825 a year for full playing privileges, a share of ownership and equity of the club, voting privileges and the ability to hold office if you choose. Downtown at Fabio Clemente's BJJ academy, you pay $1,980 per year plus a one time $100 registration fee for unlimited classes, but that's only if you sign a contract.

Anna Kournikova has never won a major international tennis tournament, but she's making a lot more money than Pe de Pano. See where I'm going with this? No? Here:

At the West End Racquet and Health Club (where, when I asked how much it costs to be a member of their tennis club, the friendly manager asked "Have you SEEN our club?") located in Torrance, California with 20 courts, a number of ball machines, and 5 pros on staff available for instruction, you pay a one time fee of $450 and then $89 per month for the rest of your life. So, for your first year, you pay $1,518 and every year after that you pay $1,068. With this, you get unlimited access and usage to the "number one club in the south bay," as it was voted.

At the nearby Gracie jiu jitsu academy, run by Rorion Gracie, for 2 lessons a week, you pay $1,848 per year plus a one-time registration fee of $60.

Becoming a jiu jitsu "star" is just as likely as becoming a tennis star, if you think about it. Rising to the cream of the crop is just as difficult and takes just as much hard work and talent. But tennis pays a lot better and gets a lot more respect and recognition. So, if I'm looking to get my kid into a sport that'll pay off the mortgage, what possible incentive could I have for taking him or her down to Rorion's? How can a sport not truly open to the public be a sport?

Another example: At the sprawling and highly exclusive Cherry Creek Links country club in Long Island, New York for $2,500 you get unlimited golf, plus $500 credit to be used in the pro shop or restaurant. A half-hour away, at Kioto Brazilian jiu jitsu, you pay $2,400 a year for just 3 classes per week. So jiu jitsu's a little cheaper, but golf has historically been one of the most exclusive "sports" in the country. Still, even Annika Sorenstam makes a lot more in one tournament than Dean Lister did for winning the absolute class at Abu Dhabi (though Sheik Tahnoon does give a pretty penny) and every other tournament he's ever won.

Brazilian jiu jitsu and submission grappling, while petitioning the I.O.C. and cable networks for respect, continue to govern themselves like martial arts and not sports. Why should ESPN care about martial arts? True martial arts are about mysticism and self-improvement. In that case, competitors are more than welcome to achieve nirvana in the obscurity of their own homes. Karate school X may feel justified in selling the enlightenment of bushido for $2,000 a year, but people without such illusions who just want to become good at a sport shouldn't have to pay that much money. Bottom line: BJJ needs to decide what it's going to be, sport or spiritual exercise. If it goes for the latter, yoga is still a more economical choice.

Even if a BJJer makes the seemingly logical step to MMA, they're still not going to make back the money they've put into their BJJ education for a long time. With promotions out there paying $200-$500 for fighters these days, most people are better off boxing. After all, the fabled Gleason's Gym in Brooklyn, which produced fighters like Riddick Bowe and Arturo Gatti, only wants 840 of your dollars per year to use their facilities and train with the greats. Din Thomas recently pointed out in a Fight Sport article that this may be the reason why there aren't many minorities in MMA. Who from the hood can afford to buy a $150 gi and then pay thousands of dollars to get to an advanced enough level to earn $500 at a no-name show in New Jersey? Or worse, to drop $80 to compete in Grappler's Quest and get nothing but a trophy for your troubles. I'm from the hood and I'll tell you right now, I can't.

As long as jiu jitsu stays firmly out of the financial reach of most people with real lives and very real bills, it will never become a real sport that everyone can appreciate and enjoy. I respect the right of any man or woman out there teaching BJJ to earn a living, but let's be realistic: This is not a martial art. We've taken great pains to make sure of it, so we can't go back now. This is where the CBJJ or even CBJJO needs to step in and do something to make sure its instructors can make a living while keeping prices affordable. If BJJ is going to be an entrepreneurial franchise, let it have standard prices like McDonalds. Otherwise, only the suburban kids will be able to afford black belts, and we all know they're not as talented.

Diami J. Virgilio
October, 2003
kneeblock@yahoo.com

May as well add my two cents. In my opinion, judo is diminishing in popularity because of a combination of the following:

1. As already mentioned, perceived lack of relevance to self-defense. BJJ has actually increased judo's reputation in this regard (gee, grappling does work), but at the same time has become perceived as the more effective of the two. And the way judo is practiced in many clubs these days, that's not an unreasonable assumption.

2. As already mentioned, throwing is just so darn difficult to learn and dangerous to boot. Quite clever of BJJ to deemphasize throwing since it is much easier for most people to develop a sense of competence with groundwork. You can practice judo for years and still be unable to throw properly. Also, the possibility of a serious injury during standup randori is so much greater.

3. As is being discussed in another forum, the atrocious looking "junk judo" that one finds at too many tournaments and even (perhaps especially) at the international level. Endless grip fighting followed by a preemptive fall-on-your-face attack before the opponent can get his grip. Of course, the better junk judo practitioners turn the preemptive attack into some kind of sloppy jacketed wrestling throw which often seems only vaguely similar to a judo throw. If that's the kind of judo I had seen as a kid, I never would have taken it up. (So perhaps rule #1 to improving judo's status is to NOT let them show it on TV; even at the olympic level, the judo they show is so often an embarrassment to watch.)

4. Poor attention to marketing. I've been at tournaments where they interspersed katame no kata and ju no kata competitions in with the main tournament. Talk about watching paint dry. Those katas are for practice, not for competition and certainly not for public consumption. People have to start saying something about this rather than sitting around like a bunch of politically correct mannikins.

Solution:
1. In a systematic way, bring back and further develop effective self-defense techniques as a standard aspect of judo.

2. Don't be afraid to emphasize groundwork, especially with adult or teenage beginners, to at least bring people in the door. Adults find throws a frightening proposition, and if they would rather do groundwork during practice sessions, then let that be the emphasis. In fact, practice sessions in which there is an emphasis on groundwork and self-defense will also bring back a lot of practitioners who are too old for competition. Emphasizing groundwork will also allow judo to cleverly borrow from the the appeal that BJJ and MMA now has.

3. As I suggested in the other forum, if possible, change the rules to minimize grip fighting and preemptive fall-on-your-face attacks, thereby allowing classical judo to reemerge. Classical judo is beautiful to watch and that by itself will make kids eager to learn it. This will include the spectacular throwing techniques, which will counterbalance the above suggestion to emphasize groundwork with older practitioners.

4. Pay attention to marketing. Do a self-defense demo at your tournament rather than a kata competition (our club used to put on some great self-defense demos; far more impressive than that clip of the Gracie demo in Japan that was shown in the MMA forum at this site). If you want to have a kata competition, do NOT include it as part of a regular tournament where the rank-and-file public have been invited. They won't know what in the hell is going on and will most likely to get really turned off with judo.

You make a lot of excellent points. It is not unusual for clubs and organizations to be good in some of these areas, yet bad in others.

so its the tokyo police challenge all over again??
great..lets get the greatest judokas from all over the world go up against the greatest bjj'ers and have them fight..

win by sub or knock out only..

no ippon throws (so the bjj crowd cant say "ippons are unrealstic!) but the matches are going to take place on concrete (so all the judokas can say "they are too!") .

im just kidding...

Turtle,

great article but if BJJ is not thriving where does that put American Judo? There is a reason why most Dojos in the DFW area are empty and almost all are part of a rec center charging 30-40 a month for dues--they couldn't charge more because people wouldn't join. However, the 2 BJJ schools I have been into have been packed and they have multiple times a day to workout. Plus they offer: 1) Wrestling take-downs on Wednesdays 2) Judo takedows on Monday (taught by a very good Judo BB in our area, and 3) Mau Tai strikes two days a week. Variety with SD focus. Plus they have a number of grappling tournements that are just a tad bit more boring than watching Judo...well, maybe a bunch. ;-)

I started to think about this question of how to increase enrollment in Judo after reading the minutes from a USJF Board meeting (may have been the local Yudanshakai). In the minutes, the statement was made that by getting an Olympic medal, more people would become interested in Judo. This really hit home. As a father of three young boys as well as a pediatrician, I must say that I do not choose activities for my children and most parents I see in my pediatric practice do not choose activities for their children with the goal of having them ultimately be Olympic Champions. In fact, most of the sports children participate in are not Olympic sports. Yes, there are a few parents who try and push their children towards certain sports....but mostly this is for them to become professionals (ie Tennis, Golf, Basketball, Baseball) and these parents are relatively rare. Mostly parents want their children to have fun and be physically active. Parents who choose Martial Arts are often looking for the discipline that is different from many of the other team sports. Many children who do martial arts are not always the fastest, coordinated, agressive children and Martial Arts offers much to these children.

There have been some comments about Americans being lazy and that video games, computers and the like are reasons why children do not do Judo. However, the Karate style clubs do not seem to be having any problems attracting children and are in fact thriving. In fact many of the children I see who are overweight do not like to play some team sports because they are not as skilled, fast or athletic as some of the other children....these are some of the children who take up Martial Arts. Judo is supposed to be good for all, and I think too much emphasis has been placed on Olympic Medals and competition in general. If we have more Olympic medals this will not in and of itself attract more people to Judo.

I think AnnaMarie's description of successful clubs is a great start. These clubs should be studied and attempts to replicate them in other areas should be started. If the Judo organizations want to be helpful, they could try and do this analysis and come up with a kind of "business plan for a succesful Judo club". This would be almost like a turn-key operation. As in other fields, just because you are a skilled carpenter, graphic designer or physician...this does not mean that you know how to run a business. Just because you were a great competeter or have great Judo technique....this does not mean you are a good teacher and does not mean that you would be a good business owner. These are different skills.

Anyway...I am rambling. For some backgroung on me. I started Judo when I was 8 yrs old with JewDoka, I was a succesful competetor, then stopped practicing while I went to College and Med School and recently started up again. I now bring my 8 year old and 5 year old to Judo and hope they will enjoy it as much as I do.

Thanks for the question.

Marc

Judo will always have it's followers no matter what goes on with the Olympics. People who are Judo purest will still exist regards of the forum. We will always have the World Championships and I think thats enough. I don't like the Olympics anymore because of the influx of so many professional athletes. Professional Basketball, Ice Hockey, heck even professional Judo players as well as others. Judo is really hard and only the people dedicated to learning it will stay, and that will always be enough. People will still have dreams of fighting for their country in the Worlds and other Tournaments.

I think the part of Judo that is so attractive to people that do it. Is the life long commitment it takes to perfect it. I takes a lifetime of study in Judo to be perfect. I feel that Budo is that way in all it's Arts. Judo, Kendo, Aikido, Karatedo, Iaido, Sumo, and others. People are satisfied with learning enough BJJ or MMA to beat someone up. I don't feel that people involved in Judo are like that. Judo is something that gets into your blood and even when you don't do it for years you think still think about it. Judo carries with it the Spirit of Bushido. When I say this I am not talking about Gracie Jujitsu, that's different. To the Gracie's, regardless of how you feel it's their family tradition which they will carry on. I am talking about your 20 something athlete who has his moment in the UFC or Pride and then turns his back because he can't compete anymore and his training ends there.

Judo and other Budo Arts have a solution for that. It's lifestyle, Kata of one. It can be done forever and ever with little or no injury to the body. Infact, Judo can be done in the right conditions in almost all it's forms. I seen plenty of men and women in the Kodokan training well into their 70's -80's.

I am sure that the numbers will drop, but I don't feel that it will effect the Spirit of Judo.

"Some agree and give good reason for the demise. I think it goes back to 1938, and possibley just before, when Judo peaked and then began to decline. Certainly after 1945 the numbers of Judo WW where NOTHING in comparison with what went before." WTF

Thanks Marc,

I'm in line with what Dr. AnnMaria Sensei and JudoMD1 (Dr. Marc) have prescribed. (Marc, how are the ribs and knee? Are you healed yet?)

I think they have the recipe(s) for successful Judo preservation/growth paths.

This is very good feedback and an excellent exchange. Now, we in the community must execute.


Thanks to everyone,

Joey

Hi I help to coach at a club in Scotland, about 18 months ago we went into the local Primary school to do a demoand & offer a 6 week free course. Next week we had 54 new kids turn up, we have retained about 40ish. So I would suggest you just get out into the community and take judo to the people.

EXCELLENT! 'TAKE JUDO TO THE PEOPLE!'

And with the right message - this will surely work here in the US too.

I think that Annmarie's comments so far were the most "actionable" ones.
I will actually plagiarize some of her ideas and put them to work.
I expect that at least some will work and yield more members.

Where is Akeru. I still want to hear his side of the story.

Why I am doing Judo because I cannot afford BJJ:

First, I think Judo, if taught well, can be a very effective MA. I think Judo brings more to the table than most MAs out there so I do not want people to think that I believe Judo is useless or not worth training in. Plus, I love Judo competitions bugs and all and feel that every judoka SHOULD compete, period, no excuses. My whole family competes in at least two tourneys a year (would be more if I could get a scholarship). With my disclaimer out of the way I will begin.

1. BJJ rules effects the way they train therefore their clubs provide a more realistic environment than Judo in regards to SD. For example, nobody is concerned with mate stopping mat work because it will never happen in BJJ tournaments therefore they always train with submissions in mind not pins.

The rules of Judo (sport) hinder the way it is taught in most Dojos. Because one has only 15 seconds to show progress on the matt before matte is called, newaza is rightly de-emphasized in most clubs. I believe this has trickled down over time and now Judo has a lot of BB sensei’s that wouldn’t know how to teach a good ground game even if they wanted to--I am assuming that Judo once had a mean ground game when I make this statement from reading previous posts on this issue. (Because I was a military brat, I have experienced Judo clubs in Illinois, Florida, Alabama, Alaska, and Washington State. I know there are great clubs out there but I have yet to attend one)

2. BJJ has incorporated Gi-less grappling in their schools. I think it is a natural progression that was long overdue in grappling-based MAs. This is not an after-thought idea after the class ends but is an actual class that is open to all students with 6 months or more BJJ training.

Gi-less grappling should be taught in Judo. Just as Kano evolved the way ju-jitsu was practiced, so we should seek to evolve the way Judo is practiced today. I enjoy the Gi’s but opportunity should be given to grapple without the Gi because as a grappler the odds of you getting into an altercation and knowing how to implement your techniques without a gi is crucial—unless you just want to emphasize the sporting aspect of Judo. I know us SD people really annoy people but as an adult that is my primary concern.

3. BJJ mat work is much more technical than Judo; Judo’s standup game is much more technical than BJJ (I know this is a generalized statement…) I would really like to develop my ground game and Judo doesn’t appear to have qualified instructors within driving distance to do that where I live.

I have not been to a Judo club that taught submission setups like in BJJ. BJJ approaches submissions like most Judo clubs approach throwing. Even the clubs that did focus on matwork (30%), there was very little instruction on how to setup an arm lock or transition from an arm lock to a choke or another submission. There is very little point in clubs spending 30-50 percent of their time in newaza if all they teach is kesa-gatame and bridge and roll type escapes. Sure, spending 30% would never make us as technical as BJJ but at least maximize the 30% you do on the mat by approaching the ground game like you approach standup—transitions, setups etc.

4. Punching/strikes is a class offered in all BJJ facilities in my area. Why not offer this in Judo? Have a MMA type class where strikes and grappling are incorporated in a safe environment. I have watched some of the BJJ MMA classes and nobody walked out with bloody noses and black eyes because all the punches were pulled during most of the class. (they do have live, full-contact sparring, however, where people can acquire the shiners and bloody noses they want. I talked to the instructor and GnP is not allowed (coach breaks it up realizing that the guy on bottom will eventually lose).

Annamarie has a lot of good ideas which are probably more attainable than my list of concerns and could probably help me progress in my ground game if I could convince her to move to Dallas.