If most elite players are always trying to wiggle out of every throw and land on their feet........Why practice ukemi so much?

No elite players or even local competitors just take a fall when caught,they all try to wiggle out.

If I would take a fall everytime I get halfway caught with something everyone would throw me for ippon all the time.Shouldn't we be practicing gymnastics for ukemi instead?

Dumb question. You obviously never worked out with a real Judoka. Ippon hurts if you think turned out will save you.

No Understanding of Ukemi, and no practice leads to:

Broken Arms
Broken Necks
Smashed pelvis
Damage to Internal organs

End of story.

In my opinion, beginners should learn good ukemi for several reasons.

First, it prevents injuries. 'Nuff said.

Second, It helps new students through the instinctive fear of falling. As they learn and get better at ukemi, this fear will subside as a hinderance in learning the other techniques of Judo. Fear of falling is probably the number one reason prospective students give me for not trying Judo.

Third, experienced students can add turnouts after they have reached a point in their training where they can do them safely. There are many stories of broken limbs, dislocated shoulders, broken necks, etc from Judoka trying turnouts without proper experience and training.

My 2C worth.

TomR

I agree with Tom above. First you have to learn how to fall down SAFELY from any throw. That's why I practice ukemi during every judo "class". When one gets proficient in the art of falling one may begin to learn to land safely without giving points to the opponent. I think this takes bit more gymnastics training than just ukemi. In our club we do a bit of gymnastics sometimes. Finally I don't mind doing a proper ukemi in randori when my opponent gets a good throw. They had me that time so I do the ukemi, get up and continue fighting and try to learn from my mistakes.

K

Tori can't do proper nage-komi if uke can't ukemi.

Gymnastic turnouts should probably be taught more and earlier than they are, but not everyone is proficient at teaching them so they are slow to catch on.

Turnouts are more of an adaptation to the sport scoring system than an improved MA approach over standard ukemi per se.

you will only get as good as your falling IMO

during randori take falls and slap if necessary

at a competition is when it is up to you to decide if you want to turn out to reduce a score.

not saying you cant practice turning out in randori either

I know quite a few higher grades that can't breakfall well, some with impressive contest records. I think guest may have point, having said that I'm very happy to be good at ukemi and to use it.

It does throw up an important question for coaches of elite players, I wonder what their take on it is?

I read somewhere - I think in some of the books by a big name judoka, that ukemis are good for, if for nothing else, knowing where your hands are when you are falling in competition, so that you do not end up with hand wrapped up underneath you and broken elbow.

I find this to be a big true. I've experienced this first hand - broken elbows and arms wrapped backwards are bad injuries.

To brake the falls? Many of those in judo...

So you don't die. The real defense against a throw is a breakfall.

Also if you fall on the street etc.

What Kozushi said.

Well, no matter how good you are, you'll be thrown sooner or later.
Besides, if no one could fall, who would teach the newbies to throw? They need an Uke, and if you have ever thrown anyone, return the favor and let them throw you. It's only fair...

According to this article, ukemi has tremendeous HEALTH benefits. Apparently it stimulates the chi/ki. Chi or KI is the life force/energy in the Traditional Chinese Medicine (i.e. accupuncture, and similiar...)

Open link and go to page 29.

http://www.americanjudo.com/Winter03.pdf[B][/B]

Yes, in competition most judokas DONT appear to breakfall. However, most of the time they DO actually fall properly - it is as much the correct positioning of the body as the BANG on the mat (which competitors avoid becuase it may lead to a better score for the opponent).

However, during training, breakfalls are VERY important because with throwing practice - after a 20-100 falls - you really NEED to know how to fall properly. Actually, even ONE poor breakfall can mess you up- so we all practice breakfalls relentlessly.

Similarly, randori during training is a step below competition so mostly you do worry less about twisting out of a throw and more about getting up for the next randori.

Finally - there are MANY more benefits to learning breakfalls than simply for Judo. For example, a Judo coach here in Australia runs "Falling for Sport" classes where the focus is ONLY breakfalls, no Judo - fo both kids AND adults.

So, breakfalls are much, much more important than you'd think.......

Break Falls are very important of your Safety,

The reasion why more advanced player "wriggle" out of throws is because after years of training they have built up, KINESTHETIC AWARENESS, AGILITY and FLEXIBILITY

"KINESTHETIC AWARENESS One of the most underrated and underdeveloped components of Judo performance, kinesthetic awareness is simply the ability of the body to relate to its surroundings while in flight. This awareness is best exemplified by the gymnast and diver. It's the ability the Judoplayer displays when, although he is completely upended and turned around, he still manages to land on his feet or knees thus avoiding a terminal score. Basic gymnastics and tumbling drills will improve this awareness in the Judoplayer."

"AGILITY This is the ability to change direction rapidly and smoothly. Players will need good agility to perform complex sequences of techniques such as counters, combinations and any other linking skills whether offensive or defensive. Again, the creative coach can devise agility drills that can be incorporated into the warm up period"

"FLEXIBILITY General and sport specific flexibility using the PNF method or slow static stretch must be developed on and off the mat. Lack of flexibility will affect the athlete's ability to do certain Judo techniques and of course may affect the injury potential of the player"

It takes time, but everyone started out learning Break Falls, I would say one of the most important part,

Look at it this way: if it wasn't for ukemi, there would not be any of us on this forum.

Ask any skateboarder the importance. Maybe not in judo terms but they know eventually you are gonna meet the pavement. Better to do it in the best mannor out there.

Man I wish I had learned judo back when I skateboarded..

good point.

ukemi practice is also good in warm ups and overall exercise. I know where that bovine flatulence about “not practicing ukemi because to do so is practicing defeatism” came from. It’s was called “new Judo” for awhile. It is pure bovine flatulence, or the initials of that famous singer/actress in Hollywierd, and is a false assumption. I remember practicing in uchikomi at times and especially kata that if one was not well versed in falling they would be well versed in not breathing or going to the hospital.

ukemi is essential for all around Judo practice. There are other means to not being defeated and that is – practice and practice with competent Judoka.

Nah - I figure there's be MORE of us on the Forum - less of us actually training.

I have seen too many injuries with judoka trying to turn out of a throw.
The idea of judo is to fall right and live to fight another day...or maybe even right away.

Couln't ageee more

One very good reason to practice break falls.

Some guy posted this on bullshido, it's from a Sombo competition. Blue Sombo Guy throws Red Sombo guy with an ugly morote seoi-nage, Red Sombo guy posts an arm as he falls. You can probably guess the outcome.

Not extremely disgusting, but you can tell an arm isn't supposed to bend in that direction.

Well think about it. You get into a fight not at the dojo. Your going to want to crash your head onto the hard ground? I'd rather breakfall than crack my skull open. And don't forget, what if you can't wiggle out? Your going to let yourself get thrown so your head hits the mat? Breakfalls may be easy to master, but I always practice them for saftey reasons.

OK, I've skimmed through this thread, to see if this has appeared elsewhere, and I don't think it has...

Here's a quote from Jigoro Kano about the importance of ukemi:



To be honest, the only time I can see a turnout being usefull is the example given by others earlier in the thread, in competition to prevent a score... Even then some people would argue that turnouts go against the spirit of Judo and have no place in Judo.

As for me, I'll stick with the Ukemi, and leave turnouts to people with grudges against their arms (A guy I used to train with had his arm broken because he tried to stop himself from being thrown).

Turnouts are almost instinctive, I don't think about them,

If a throw is done properly you can't turnout, they have control which is of course needed for an ippon,

i have to wholeheartedly agree. i tell my kids how important ukemi is. my sensei stressed its importance. i tell them that if your ukemi is good, your tachi waza will be too. if you are not afraid to fall, you will relax enough to learn how to throw well.

To break falls?

All kidding aside, I saw a match where Edmon Begoli's opponent broke his arm in a nasty way. Yes you can turn out in a match etc but breakfalls give you some good habits that help prevent sicking your arm straight out etc even if you are not doing a classic breakfall.

Judo ukemi is the safety net of a very dangerous occupation.
Kano Shihan enforced the ukemi on all of his students, no matter the rank, for good reasons. Ukemi is the first line of defence in judo, if you do not how to fall properly you should not play in randori, or an injury is allmost certain.

Do you know how annoying it is when a new guy comes to the the club and yer practising with him and he's absolutely massive and you aint allowed to throw him when practising techniques at all cos he can't breakfall? Or those lazy mofos who can never be bothered, only go cos their mammy makes em, when you do nage komi with them they do anything they can so you can't thrwo them cos they never learned to breakffall?

Learn to breakfall so I can pummel you!!!